DJ Valerie B LOVE Show
”Smash the status quo with technology for good.”A No-BS show for Truth-Seekers and Freedom-Lovers who know the system is broken and are on a mission to build the best versions of themselves and the planet. My fabulous guests and I share tips, tools, and hacks about freedom technologies, AI, peace, meditation, LOVE, human rights, futurism, personal growth, Bitcoin, censorship, and prosperity for ALL. If you are on a mission to make yourself and the world way better this podcast is for YOU."Peaceful Money = Peaceful Planet"
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DJ Valerie B LOVE Show
Fear vs Faith vs Future with Jeff Booth
I am SO honored to have Jeff Booth, Author of The Price of Tomorrow and founding partner of Ego Death Capital as we discuss the power of love, belonging, and authenticity in the face of an extractive societal system.
He emphasizes the importance of community connection and personal growth, encouraging listeners to navigate fear and embrace their true selves through the lens of Bitcoin.
• Understanding relationships as a core element of success
• The dangers of imposter syndrome and how it affects us
• The necessity of authenticity in personal identity
• The power dynamics of fear, faith, and future
• Bitcoin as a catalyst for community empowerment
• How to cultivate meaningful connections for personal growth
• The shift from an extractive mindset to a cooperative framework
• Creating a future that thrives on individual strengths
• Recognition that we are all interconnected nodes in the larger network
• The importance of taking action to contribute positively to society
https://www.jeffbooth.ca/
https://primal.net/jeffbooth
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Hey, aloha Love Tribe, Welcome to 2025. Who would have thought? We've gotten all the way here and my very first guest is somebody who I've been admiring and being inspired by over the last couple of years, since I've become a Bitcoiner, and I am so honored. I'm a little bit nervous, but I'm also just like let's go, let's do this, and Jeff Booth is my very, very special guest this morning on January 6th, 2025. Aloha, jeff.
Speaker 2:Aloha, so good to be here with you.
Speaker 1:It is so good. And so you know, jeff, you're somebody who. And so you know, jeff, you're somebody who I brought tissue because I know I'm going to cry during this interview. You're somebody who I aspire to be, like you know, and I always want to be myself and I always want to encourage everybody to be ourselves. But, like you're somebody who has shown the Bitcoin community and shown the entrepreneurial community at large how to achieve dreams and then also how to give back, and you give back in such a generous way. Like you talk to people who are, you know you're not just oh, I'm going to go on. You know the big. You know mainstream media channels and whatnot. Like you give your time, treasure and talent to those of us who are, you know, on the stairway up of you know doing our missions in life, and so what I want to ask you is have you always been like this?
Speaker 2:So you obviously make a whole bunch of mistakes and you improve and everything else you try to to uh but even when you just said, said that I think I just have a different frame of what what things look like, what, what, what success in air quotes looks like, and and I don't think it's a a ladder up, I think it's I, I think, um, ultimately that comes to. So, okay, what drives our friendship?
Speaker 2:yeah forget bitcoin, forgetting what drives you and my friendship yeah, the thing that you see in me. What drives your and my friendship? Yeah, the thing that you see in me.
Speaker 2:I see in you, yeah, right, and and so I don't think of people as being better or worse, I think I, I think about people as each person having a superpower, a genius that I can learn from um. It doesn't matter where they are, doesn't matter. So I don't see, I don't see, I don't see, I don't see, I don't see it better, I don't see me being better. I don't see anybody above me, I don't see anyone below me. I see us all as finding a path and learning on that path, and each person can be instructive to whether you're taking a negative that you don't want to be um, or a positive in somebody that you think, wow, they have, they have something that is so brilliant. I want to take a little bit of what their their brilliance into me.
Speaker 1:And and I think that's such a great point, jeff, because you know a lot of people are out there and we've got imposter syndrome and I know you and I spoke about this previously, and it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire, if you're. You know this.
Speaker 2:I just lost you for a sec. Can you hear me? I can't hear you. I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Can others hear you? That's crazy. You want me to dial back into the restream? Yeah, I'll come back in. Oh, a host has no audio, so it's you. Why don't you jump off and back in?
Speaker 1:Hmm.
Speaker 2:And thanks, tomer, great to see you buddy, happy new year.
Speaker 1:Okay, what about now?
Speaker 1:ah, perfect, you're back it's so weird like, jeff, I swear you know I believe in vibrations and energy and weird stuff and, uh, the last day I had a whole bunch of stuff going on with not being able to upload stuff to the pod home and a bunch of people are like, oh, everything's working fine and I'm like it's not working for my end.
Speaker 1:Um, but anyway, um, you know, let's, I want to circle back to the kind of the, the concept that you just said, that we're all the same and if we get down to the quantum level of everything, we're all just part of this one big cosmic soup, this one big gelatinous, beautiful expression of life. And so I'm always grateful for your humility and grateful for your way that you express things to people, because you're not in this like superior, expert mindset position. You're always in this like we're all on the journey together. We're all kind of climbing up Mount Everest. Let's go have some fun. And I think, for people who are out there, who are on the journey of discovering who they are and why they're here, a lot of people feel that imposter syndrome, which was what we were talking about a second ago. And so have you ever felt imposter syndrome, jeff Booth?
Speaker 2:I don't know if imposter syndrome, I ever felt imposter syndrome, but to say that I didn't even what I'm doing right now. So when I listen to, I never listened to myself on a podcast. I hate listening to myself on a podcast.
Speaker 2:And so I've never actually listened to myself. Here's why I always start a sentence and I never finish the sentence. I move to another sentence, and that's because I don't know a lot of times where to start with the question, because there's so many different levels to the question based on that, and so my head is going through all the different levels of the question in the same, in the, at the same time, and so what you just described is what you just asked me. Is me doing that? Cause I think about the. I think about these answers not in just a one dimensional answer, I think about them in in multi-dimensional answer, in in things that I've learned on the path, on my own path, and so to that specific question, things that I've learned on the path on my own path, and so to that specific question, things that I've learned on my own path. Simplifying is we all want love and belonging.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're so desperate for love and belonging, we'll do anything to get it. And we often have this mirror of our world trying to get love and belonging so desperately, while pushing it away. And I use the victim analogy all the time to be able to describe that, because other people can see other victims and they can see, yeah, oh, that's true for them, but it's true for all of us. And we do the things because we so desperately want love and belonging of us. And we do the things because we so desperately want love and belonging, um, we'll do almost anything for it. And often that is also the source of our pain. And when you so, so when you ask in posture syndrome, um, why people, uh, what, why I pause at what level to ask the question or answer the question, is actually a symptom of that. I want to look like that, for so I matter to other people, and then I don't feel like I matter, and so I, so I feel like I'm not. I'm not real.
Speaker 2:I'm not authentic in myself, and so that that that what you're asking is the same thing as I think I've seen in myself and I see in everyone around me. And once you see it in yourself and you realize you're just like every single other person yeah, you are the same. If you see it in everyone else, then you have to ask yourself, okay, where do I have this? Yeah, and by seeing this in myself and saying I have it too, everybody has it. What we do, most of the things we do because of that and I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, but then you can frame it in a totally different light. You can say so. If that's true and the victim is essentially hurting themselves by desperately trying to get attention and love and belonging, they're actually stopping the thing they want most, and the same is true in all different versions of the victim in ourselves then where in my life don't I have everything I could ever want?
Speaker 2:yeah and and that was my first block to uncover things in me that were stopping my success in what I said I wanted.
Speaker 1:How old were you when this happened, Jeff?
Speaker 2:In my early 20s.
Speaker 1:In your 20s? Okay great, let's go there Like what was a Then? I just want to kind of go beyond that.
Speaker 2:I want to go. So that was probably the first time. And then you get better and better at seeing it and you get better and better at seeing it in yourself and others. It became a framework that I realized that Essentially I used the negative variable of what was happening to me as the positive change for me. So anytime I would feel reservation or something, I realized it wasn't the world conspiring against me, it was me conspiring against the world. And once and as I got better and better at that for me, then I could see it in everybody else too. I could, like I could literally see that we're all the same, we're all looking for that love and belonging. And it stopped being about me and it stopped. It started being about everybody else.
Speaker 1:And so, for you know, we, we think of love and belonging, right Like that is obviously a driver in how we operate and it's a driver in how we make decisions in life. You know, and I think it's also a survival mechanism. You know, if we want to be a part of a, a, a micro, macro societal group, it's important, you know, like most humans can't just live by themselves all alone forever, you know. And so to become part of a group, it's a survival imperative. And so, you know, instead of being in a place where we have to conform to that group, how can we remain authentic to ourselves, you know, and still contribute to the group and still be in a place of empowerment, in a place of authenticity, in a place of connection to?
Speaker 1:You know, some people say the divine, god, love spirit, universe, jesus, whatever it is. But, you know, for many people we get stuck and you're seeing this right now in society, where people are going along with the herd mentality and they're not having critical thinking activated and they're just sort of like, well, I guess I'm supposed to do this and look like this and behave in this way. So what would you say to people, especially young people, who might be listening to this how to find your authentic version of you so that you can have your mental, spiritual, physical, financial health and move forward and be a contributing member to the society that you are a part of.
Speaker 2:So, because this is so strong in our lives and because the in-group, out-group bias is so strong, we believe that the group that we are in is the best group and will conform to it. And so, with that, even what you just asked inside the question is actually a problem in the way that you asked it, because we naturally think our group is different and all those other people are this one same group and they're all individual actors. They're all individual, each searching for their own way, and so when we ask a question that says those other people we take our biases and put them into say, like you see this all the time in Bitcoin, those NPCs that don't get this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When we were all NPCs at one time.
Speaker 1:Yep Right.
Speaker 2:And because a need to with our group feel superior to somebody else. Yeah, we don't need to. If you want to do that, if it's really good for your life, then by all means it's not my job to tell you how to live your life. I'm just saying so. If you're truly getting everything you want out of doing that, then who am I to say that? Don't do that. But I don't need to get anything out of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you just nailed it. I think a lot of us. I was just on a space last night with Dr Noah and several people. When we're talking about atheism versus religion versus spirituality and Bitcoiner da, da, da. The minute that any of us self-identify as a thing, whether it's a Christian or a Bitcoiner or a woman or a this we're creating the illusion of separation. We're creating boxes or containers, and it's like me versus you, us versus them. And I think you know your your interview with Daniela, which is great. I love her. I can't wait to meet her someday. I really she's such a a beautiful, sweet soul.
Speaker 1:You know, we think about at the quantum level, or at any micro. At the quantum level or at any micro, micro, micro level. We're all just part of the same oneness. You and I are not different. We might be different expressions, but we're different expressions of the one, of the totality, of all of it. And so there's 8 billion of us different expressions, but we're all still interconnected inextricably.
Speaker 1:You know to this, this concept of one, and so when we start thinking, you know, us versus them, NPCs versus Bitcoiners, whatever, there's no versus. You know, and, and I really, um, it's. It's a hard thing for people to to grasp, because we've been programmed with the tribalism, the tribal mentality, right. If you think of sports, you're on teams. If you think of politics, you're on teams. If you think of religion, you're on different things. And so Bitcoin, to me personally, has been I've been on a spiritual path for 35 years and it's one of the variables that is mathematically able to say yes, this is what can unite us. It's time, it's energy, it's numbers, and so a lot of people are up here in like woo-woo land and oh, we are one, but it's like no, but we're really one, we truly are, you know, when you get down to the scientific part of it.
Speaker 2:So I truly, I truly believe that, like, I truly believe that and I see that in an expression of my life and I see that everywhere around me. If you, you use that daniella as an example, here's a person who flew to madeira because of the conference we put on, so that she could ask me to.
Speaker 2:To go straight in my new book, and out of that conversation you had this beautiful soul who, who I asked to create her own book so that and I would help her in doing this didn't know her at all, but if and then and then watching her path out of what was in her all the time, right was always there yeah to uh, to be able to create somebody else who really understood this and move, move forward.
Speaker 2:And then it's going to be it's just this and move forward, and then it's going to be. It's just to me. It's super exciting to watch somebody else have amazing success.
Speaker 2:Andre, before that, which was the start of Madeira, is just somebody on Twitter who asked if he could publish my book and all of Madeira and all the conference and everything else and what's happening there came out of him coming to me and just finding just a really beautiful soul and spending time. So people ask why do I do it? You can't imagine what I get from it, what I get from it, and so that's why I see that in everyone. Obviously, you run out of time.
Speaker 1:You have to be careful on your time too, but where I can spend that time, I love spending that time. And you are so generous with your time, jeff. Like it's, you give back so much to this community, and not just the bitcoin community, but to the entrepreneurial community, to the builder community, to the people who are the dreamers of the future.
Speaker 2:But can I, can I just clarify this, and this is where I'm actually selfish with my time. You should be, but it looks like giving back. It is, but it's a 10 to 100x on my time because it all looks like that, because I care so much about the people that I'm with that I wouldn't do it if it didn't look like that. And then if it looks like for me, if it looks like this ladder climbing game with anybody, with somebody who believes they're above me or below me, then then I'd stop spending time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and and you know there's a I I love reminders and sticky notes and words. Words are my love language, you know, and I have, you know, little decks of cards with art and positive affirmations, and one of them is, you know, when you get nervous, focus on service. And you know, I don't know about you, but when I'm in a place of feeling lost, or if I'm in a place of feeling like, am I doing enough, the minute that I can just give a little bit back to anybody, whether it's somebody who's my child, my neighbor, a Bitcoin or society at large all of a sudden I get to have a feeling of calmness in my system. And so it's not a selfish act to focus on service, but it is also something that we get that benefit of. Like you said, that love comes back to you, it does, and it's this beautiful mirror and it's real. It's not just even getting to talk with you, and we've had, you know, several conversations.
Speaker 1:I remember last year, when I was in Costa Rica and we were at, you know, this event, and it was all these wonderful, visionary people, but none of them were Bitcoiners, you know.
Speaker 1:And the executive, the ED of Bucky Fuller Institute, was there and I'm just like they don't get Bitcoin, jeff, what do I do? And I remember emailing you and texting you and you're like, val, just be yourself, you don't have to convert anybody. And you had told me what Robert Kiyosaki had said, that you had been compared to Bucky Fuller, and I agree with that. You know, and, and I am such a future visionary type human, you know, and so this is why I resonate with you, this is why I resonate with with Bucky, this is why I resonate with people like Jason Silva, you know, and and it's like you're somebody who is like don't go back into the old playground and play those games, make the new playground old playground and play those games, make the new playground, make the new dojo and go play there. And you know, have you always been that way where you get that like you don't have to go reform the old system, you just build the new one and let the other one crumble Probably, probably.
Speaker 2:I've always been on the visionary spectrum. It's abstract and being able to see uh, being able to see things before they came. So probably that was one of my superpowers but, like Tom, are on this. Call you on this. Call, Justin, that some of the people watching this have been instructive to my own journey. And there's so many people, uh, there's so many people that I couldn't thank right, Because there's so many people that are just as instructive to my journey as they think I might be to theirs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's something that we all could take note of and remember. A lot of times you never know if you're the one holding the door open for the person who's about to jump off a bridge and that that little tiny act of kindness mattered to that person in that moment. You know, and so I, you know I always want to encourage myself, my family and the people around me and my clients. It's like if you can just focus on being the best version of yourself in the moment and just doing the right next thing, you know it's going to yield results, and you may never even know who you impacted with those those micro things that you did. But but you're right, like I mean you can't.
Speaker 2:That's the best thing, because it shouldn't be about you change them. It should be about them. They change them, and you were a node providing a positive way forward.
Speaker 1:Our greatness comes from the people that we inspire and that we'll never know and imagine. I mean, I know you probably imagine this, Jeff, but I always imagine like what would the world look like if each individual node of light, our 8 billion souls, just truly focused on becoming the best and most brightest, most loving, most self-expressed versions of ourselves, versus trying to convert other people or overpower them or get them to our way of living, instead of just really embodying what it means to be your own divine source of light?
Speaker 2:So in my Madeira speech, where I, where I broke down, that's what I see, that's actually what I see. I see, see.
Speaker 1:I asked.
Speaker 2:Gigi this one time and he, and two years later he said I've been thinking about this for for since you asked me, I said I asked him did the Buddha need Bitcoin? And? And? The answer is no, right. So could you reach enlightenment without it? Yes, you probably. Yes, you could, dropping all of everything else, and there's evidence of lots of people before us reaching a level of enlightenment with it where, where outside events didn't happen to them, they were totally in control, and they saw different things because of, uh, because of that.
Speaker 2:So could you get there?
Speaker 2:yes would it be plausible for most of humanity to get there?
Speaker 2:No, because you had a, because you were on a construct that couldn't allow you to get there. It would be really hard because most people would be stuck in fear, feeding that system. What you just described, and what Bitcoin is to me, is primarily this truthful layer, honest layer, decentralized, secure, bounded by energy that, in time, allows more people to see this, and I think what Bitcoiners and I'm trying not to do in-group bias here, because eventually everyone will see it, but what Bitcoiners are seeing right now is the leading edge of what that looks like and they can see the changes. Many probably listening to this call or a call with us, or they're already feeling this in their life and they want to. They're wanting to experience it more and more and they're wanting to spend more and more time in this energy and that's why they're in Bitcoin and that's why they're and they're seeing a change in their life and they're seeing the change in other lives around them and that is going to cascade in time to all 8 billion of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you know I'm working on this project called Bitcoin for Peace and I'm putting together, you know, as many stories, poems, songs, whatever, of people kind of like Chicken Soup for the Soul, remember, with Mark Victor Hansen and Jack Canfield, and so many of us, obviously, are touched by stories, we're touched by the human experience of how Bitcoin changes our lives, and so some of us are touched by graphs and charts and math and all the good stuff, and other people are more like, wow, you escaped an authoritarian regime or you escaped a domestic violence situation, and so I think, the more that we can, you know, come together and continue to like, put the stories forward of, like the before and after the windshield wiper kind of thing, um, it's, it helps people realize that it's not just this one-dimensional tool. It is, you know, I call it like the grout in a mosaic. You know I love to do, I love art and mosaics, and so you know you've got these tesserae and these big things called, you know, people, these 8 billion people, but Bitcoin is this grout between all of the tesserae that brings us forward and holds us together, and it's time, and it's time and it's bound by energy and and it's verifiable, you know, mathematically, which is very different than most things in the world. You know, again, last night, being on this space, there were people who want to have this objective truth of this is God, this is spirit, this is universe. This is the way things work and Bitcoin offers some layer of that.
Speaker 1:Until it doesn't, who knows, in a hundred years from now we may have some crazy quantum things that will move things forward in a different way that we couldn't have predicted today. I mean, imagine, like a hundred years ago, right in 1925, that you and I are sitting here having this visual talk on a flat screen and there's some lights and it's getting broadcast to whoever wants to watch it, all over the world, like what's going to happen exponentially in 100 years from now. You know, with the technology that's there, but the technology is us right.
Speaker 2:We create it, and that's the point I just said on a recent podcast. The best AI play on the planet is Bitcoin. Keep going.
Speaker 1:Can you help people understand what you mean?
Speaker 2:It's so amazing to me to watch people play AI without Bitcoin, because playing AI without Bitcoin is essentially concentrating, centralizing a system that extracts from you. Yeah, that's what it is, because it has to. It can't allow the productivity to flow to you, so it has to take the existing financial system and extract from you more. And then, as they're doing that, they're worried more and more about the events. Like you just said, fear faith and future. They're worried more about the events, so they're trying to get more money from within it, making more and more AI risky bets and trying to. They're all in the same bets, whereas all Bitcoin is is a forcing function to allow the productivity from our brains that we create to flow to us because of the free market. So by that, because it's decentralized, it's secure.
Speaker 2:It allows all prices to fall to the marginal cost of production which the free market demands and if you have Bitcoin, it means all the productivity in the entire planet is being is being delivered to you through the free market and the first free market we've ever first global free market that the world has ever experienced, and you are a node in that.
Speaker 2:If you own bitcoin in self custody and you especially if you run a node, you are you are great, gaining that productivity. That productivity will explode because more and more people are going to move to bitcoin and those ideas and everything that's going to be built on top of it is going to unlock seven and a5 billion minds that are going to be in service of all of us that are not in service today. They're slaves. They're modern-day slavery in a system of fear. They're going to be in service and what we'll see all of the additional minds that we'll see that will contribute to all of us is like nothing we can even imagine, or most people can even imagine. Um and so, but it all forces that productivity to continue to to. You'll work less and less and less through this system and you'll gain more and more and more, as, as humanity is, is on an honest layer.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to go into that a little bit, Jeff, because there's obviously people out there like us as Bitcoiners, and people who are futurists and technologists, who are excited about cool. This is a tool, right. And there's a lot of people Like I. Look at my children, for example. Right, they're college age. One of them's in college. The other one's going to be entering college pretty soon, If he decides to go, you know, that's yet to be determined.
Speaker 1:But there is a sense of and I, you know, I listen to their friends, and obviously not just their friends, but other young people there's a sense of apathy and there's a sense of disempowerment with technology.
Speaker 1:And obviously we know, you know, when the internet came along, people are like, oh wow, this is going to be cool, it's going to get rid of, you know, the operator jobs where you had to, like, push the button and do the things the same thing.
Speaker 1:I mean that's what we want to see when technology progresses and but because AI is so, I mean it to me it seems more exponentially powerful than these other technologies that have come prior to it. Like, what are people going to do with their time that they can actually offer value that a computer can't you know, because and I'll say one question really quick, because I know you and I talked about this with, like the 11x love code and having Yoda in your pocket If there's a machine or a robot or our phone that can answer all the questions that we need, that can give us guidance on a daily basis, that can track our vibrations, our bio chemistry, on things like where do humans come into play, where they can still feel like they're contributing to something in the future that they can earn a living that they're going to be okay with.
Speaker 2:This is going to be one of those.
Speaker 2:The level of that question is on so many different levels and most people that I'll talk to some of the people on this call will get this, tomer will get this, tomer gets will get this. But the level of this question, depending on your view of what's happening, it's going to be hard. So what does the free market value? Anything that you provide value to somebody else is what the free market values. So today we're so early in Bitcoin like so crazy early in Bitcoin that there's obviously tons of value as 8 billion souls move into this and need to understand this. There's value everywhere up and down the stack. A lot of people make mistakes, but what do you need to do to actually attract some of that value? Just move, just go first. Like I remember natalie at her first bitcoin conference, where natalie brunel, where she didn't get in. She couldn't get in, they wouldn't let her into some of the parties and she was on a press pass when she had decided I'm just going to move my time into this and it was. It's amazing to watch her journey yeah, from moving her time into this. But but I could say that for james lavish. I could say that for a whole bunch of other people. I could say that for me, just by moving my time, that you could see is uh, see what came back back to you by providing value to other people. So that's how the free market works. We're really early in that. There's tons of additional value to come. We will always find problems. There will always be things to do, but those problems every time we solve a problem and more and more people. So when I say the free market, but those problems, every time we solve a problem and more and more people. So when I say the free market, I'm going to back up the thing that is scarce that creates margin, creates the opportunity Right, it's almost the yin and yang of a market the thing that is scarce. So if you had scarcity, let's say we're way back in time, worried about fertilizers, growing enough food. We invent fertilizers. It comes from our mind.
Speaker 2:You could actually argue that Bitcoin had to come when it came because of the worry of what would happen in a centralized or. It came at exactly the right time for humanity to start to see it and 20 years of cryptography, cypherpunks trying to crack this code and get solved like an iterative solve by Satoshi to come at the right time, because it had to. That's how the world has always worked. We can't see these things coming until they're needed, desperately needed, and then they're solved by our mind. They're solved by our minds. So so now just let me carry forward that, so that AI that you're talking about, everything else, let's let's imagine, on two ends of the spectrum, you, artificial general intelligence that can do it. If you believed it could do anything, you could do and more. And it could be applied into any robotic solution, all different types, not just robot dogs who were back, humans, all different various sizes, shapes everything else into nanobots and everything that works into our bodies and the works.
Speaker 2:If you just imagine what that could look like in not very long. So you have an artificial general intelligence in all sorts of robotic solutions that could do anything you could do on one end of the spectrum and you were living in a system of manipulated money. Then that means all of that productivity gain that we would use because it would make our lives better would get extracted from us into a system that would control us. It would have to. And what you're explaining from people's fear, your kids' fear, what they're looking at is they're two different thought patterns in the same time and they don't marry. They're so worried about losing that job and what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Where can I make money in a world that I have to make this much money to survive? And it's getting worse and worse and they're scared and they're they're making it worse with their time. But if they just have bitcoin, if that's all they do, then all of that productivity flows to them. All of those prices of all of those things go to zero and the AI and the robots are in service of us because they came from us right, instead of in service of a control structure against us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The opposite end of that spectrum on, on, even if it's Bitcoin as a, as a store of value connected to the U S dollar right. The opposite end of that spectrum is imperialism 2.0, with an ultimate control structure that people should be fearful of. So if they're stuck in that fear, then you should show them the way out of the fear, and the fear is the only way out. And, by the way, everything I just described there. I'm going to go back to a different thing. You asked futurists. When I think about futurists, if I look back in all of the futurists in time, very few that actually could see kind of where things were going, and I'm going to include me into this, include most are predicting the present forward, without all the variables of all the other things, and thinking that everything stays the same. Everything is changing under this framework.
Speaker 2:And you've heard me say and I'm going to ask Tom asked a question here that I should answer too You've heard me say if it stays decentralized and secure, then the world I'm describing is inevitable. It doesn't matter if I believe it or not. It is happening because you have a decentralized and secure protocol bounded by energy, and it doesn't care what the people who think they're in charge care about. It, doesn't care about what the piece of paper says. The value is. It doesn't care. Is it doesn't care. It is imposing a discipline where the first global free market ever, a world where eight billion people are in service of eight billion people, and the only way to to create more value or to get richer in that system and I say richer, not from the construct that we have today is to provide more service to your fellow humans.
Speaker 1:And that's obviously what those of us who, I feel like, are more comfortable on Maslow's hierarchy of needs to a certain degree, right, like we have a roof over our head, we have electricity, we have clean water, we have, you know, the ability to communicate with each other, things that are, you know, what we consider basic human needs. But still, jeff, like I would just the people out there who are who need Bitcoin the most, as we know, you know, like we know, that the people who need Bitcoin the most are the people who are in the most oppressive situations, in the most oppressive regimes. A lot of people in these first world countries like ours, you know, canada and whatnot. They're like the system's working, it's okay, it's it's it's like a toothpick system. It's not working. You know it's an extractive system and it's hurting people, but you just don't see it because you're the frog in the boiling water.
Speaker 1:But you know people who are struggling to literally get clean water so that their child doesn't get dysentery, you know, and and and be able to feed them, something like, how do we help them? You know, are they going to be the leap froggers over us because they get Bitcoin and they're like Whoa, this is going to be great. We've got like a river that runs through our community and we can now mine Bitcoin and we're in a better state, like gridless. How do we help people who maybe don't have the natural resources around them that can get conveyed into something that is useful for them? You know like there's so many people who are living in this, this unfortunate structure, this state.
Speaker 2:So, so, so one of the things that I think that creates some tension or apprehension is I need to do it all Right? Is I need to do it all Right and living your best life and doing the things that you're uniquely talented to do? And why is it that I need? It's my job to help them all right, just even in that? We are all going to find this in our time, and so how would you maybe I'll ask the question to you in a different way who are you most inspired by, and what do they do? And, and and probably they show up with integrity and, and, and they're the best, them constantly learning, and, and that's what. It might be different for you, or whatever, but but how do you look at somebody else who's making a difference in the world? And then we all make difference in our own way.
Speaker 1:For me personally. Obviously I look up at, obviously, people like you, people like Tomer, people like Bucky Fuller, people like Mother Teresa, and I look at the three-letter word called God and I don't have one identity. That's like, yeah, that's who I want to be or that's who what inspires me. But I look at it like a remember the light, bright things back in the day, the kids, right, and so we're all this. Like each one of us is one of those little pegs that go in and create this hole and it creates this masterpiece called life. And so I look at different people and what they can bring. Like, obviously I have Prince around me, a lot Like Prince is somebody who, as an artist, as a creative, as somebody who's like, screw the system, this is an extractive for artists, you know, like I really admired the way that he pushed himself forward and was like I don't need to be a slave.
Speaker 1:I mean, he wrote slave on his face, you know. And so there's all these different aspects and characteristics of different people that inspire and guide my choices of who I want to be, but I still just want to be Val, whoever Val is. But I'm influenced by all of the other little light, bright colors that each one of you are you know, it looks like.
Speaker 2:It looks like one person at a time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Touching one person at a time. That's what it looks like and and, honestly, if I even think about my own journey, I can't tell you for sure when some of the the people probably on this call, when some of the the people probably on this call um the influenced my journey without them knowing they influenced my journey, because it might have been in my subconscious prior to me even writing book and then seeing, seeing, um, some of the work that was out there before.
Speaker 2:So, but what that means is I'm standing on the shoulders of greatness that has always been all around me, without my knowledge that I did, and so that's what's happening today, and it's happening, and that's why it's such a chaotic transformation too, because we're so early in the transformation, and this is really not about a system.
Speaker 2:It's about us inside the system. We are both the system and the creators, creators of it and we live in a construct right now where most of the world believes in a construct that is extractive to them in their time, yeah, and they don't know they live in that construct and they don't know that their actions are perpetuating the the worst in that system. And so I could look at those things and I could have an empathy for the massive empathy, but I don't need to be them either. Right, I can feel it Like I, I know that, and I think you asked a question before or later by email on how do you stay in that, in that abundance and that hope and that inspiration? Because, yeah, it's the same way that if you, when you have a young family and you teach them about having a, what would it would look like in a fire? Right, and you need a fire escape and everything else, but you don't expect a fire every day.
Speaker 1:You don't live in a fire every day.
Speaker 2:You want to be prepared, you want to know what this looks like, you want to look down to the sand, but you don't want to live there every day. You can still live and hope and be prepared, and so that's how I think about that.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that's such a great point, jeff, because, like you know, we look at insurance right, whether it's car insurance or house insurance or whatever like you want to be, you know, covered somehow in your mind that like, okay, I'm, I'm putting my seatbelt on, I don't expect to get in a car accident, but I'm doing this thing that could protect me in case, you know, somebody swerves and tries to you know, runs me off the road, which happened to me a couple of years ago. Thank God I didn't die, um, but it's important for us to remember, like we don't have to live in that place of fear, that the bad things are going to happen, you know, and and be in a place of hope and possibility and the future. And I think you know so, something that happened to me in the last couple of months and I say happened to me. It's a gift, it's a blessing and it's not a victim thing. But I had an, I've had an issue going on with a certain family member and if I didn't have this issue, I wouldn't have had this one conversation with my one friend in Columbia who said Val, you need to listen to this book called the Game of Life by Florence Govel Shin, and as somebody who's been deep into personal growth and spirituality and trying to make myself and the world a better place for the last 35 years, I couldn't believe.
Speaker 1:I'm like how did I not have this book, this thing, in my life? And it's a hundred years old? She wrote it in 1925. And it was something that was shifting my perspective. That said you can look at life as a war or life as a game. And the minute that I remembered that I could shift my perspective and look at things from a place of curiosity and wonder and more playfulness and that's what I teach with my clients and people that I work with.
Speaker 1:For some reason, the way that she said it in this exact moment reminded me that I don't have to live in the vibration of fear. I don't have to live in the vibration of lack or scarcity and I think so many of us because we tune into the mainstream media, we listen to social media. We're programmed by the schools, by the governments, by churches. We're programmed to be afraid. We're programmed to be little, to be afraid. We're programmed to be little automatons who submit to whatever that authority is. And so the minute we can remember, the only authority is in here that is connected to the infinite, then we can be free and we can be in that place of joy, in that place of prosperity and abundance. And so, when I named this, when I when I named this episode fear versus faith versus future it's like when we can get out of that place of being programmed into every the sky is falling and everything's terrible Like then our nervous systems can relax into the hope of the future, and not just hope as a vision, but hope as reality.
Speaker 2:I guess what I'm getting at is it's available to you anytime. It doesn't need to be the future, it's always a bit In late 2017,. I told this story a long time ago. I used to tell it all the time on podcasts, but I was completely broke, completely. Uh, we had sold our family house to be able to fund the business that.
Speaker 2:I walked away from the business, um, the, at one time, the, the worth 100 million dollars, every. I was the star of uh, canada, and everybody thought that's who I was Right, and so so the outward world, that's who, that's who I was, and walking away for with zero and losing it, losing everything. I mean when I say losing everything, we lost everything. Wow, I couldn't pay rent at the end of the month. Three young kids, the, the, and, and still, and I didn't walk away with severance.
Speaker 2:Walked away because, if I, because I left, I didn't get fired. I left, and that meant no, two weeks, no, no, anything else. And so I'm not saying this story for anything other than this. What I found in that moment is I had everything I ever wanted. I didn't lose. I had all my friends, I had all my family, I had everything that was important to me I could have lived in a tent and I had abundance at that moment and everything else just came back Right Because the and so I would be lying if I go back to that that there wasn't at that moment some interpretation, fear what was going to happen. But I can tell you this when I realized I already had everything I could ever want, at nothing that is super powerful.
Speaker 1:And in that moment, jeff, was there something that you had? A lightning bolt, an epiphany? Did you have something that was just giving you that sense of trust and faith and comfort, that? The most important thing was obviously your family and your people. Crazy amount of love to me in almost that you didn't feel like you could deserve that. Why would?
Speaker 2:you think you wouldn't deserve that. I think it was just so surprising that there was that much and that it just all flooded. So three people called within the same day three friends, three investors in my company and said virtually the same words, but they didn't know each other. And they said I'm going to wire $100,000 to your personal bank account. You never have to pay me back. Don't tell your wife, like, who does that for somebody? That the and and so but that way. And I never needed to take it because so many other things. Things were happening, but I just the the generosity and the kindness of what was happening. But then it played back that maybe that's because you were always that person, right, you were always doing that, so it was just. But my story from that is at nothing. I had everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's something for all of us listening, for anybody who's out there listening. I always think about what's going to be the thing when I take my last breath, if I'm lucky enough to be on a bed and my loved ones are around me, or if I'm jumping out of an airplane and the parachute doesn't open, whatever it might be. But what is the thing? That is the quintessential, ultimate importance. And it's our people, it's the people in our lives that we impact and that impact us. It's not this shirt, it's not my records, it's not art. It's literally the relationships that we've built over life. And when you say you had nothing, it's like well, maybe not the physical stuff in these atoms and stuff, but you had the infinite love of these relationships that you've cultivated over the years.
Speaker 2:So if you've had that experience, experience now, I think about that experience and how fortunate am I to have that experience and see that? Yeah, so I don't think about the, the, the that is a negative one, iota, in fact. In fact, I probably wouldn't have written the book, or at least written the book at the time I wrote the book had it not been for that experience. I wouldn't have met many of the people that are my like super close friends now without that, without that path. And so it was, it was a, it was. It ended up being one of the best things to be able to see, and so now I'm super thankful for that, for that journey and seeing it.
Speaker 2:But how could I, how could I play that forward for other people to?
Speaker 2:yeah take a lesson from you already have it. You already have everything you want. Just spend the time. Spend the time moving, like if you're early in your bitcoin journey and you're saying this is an open network. Go, provide value to somebody. Yeah, it will be. It might take some time, but provide value, not to the hundreds of billions or the hundreds of millions of people somewhere else, those poor people, right. Provide value to the people that you want to provide value. To find the thing that you could. You could start with a podcast, you could start with a small group in your neighborhood and if the thing that I know is build deep connections, not tons of social media narrow connections, that I matter more when I have more connections Because, again, every scarcity provides an abundance you can feel today that so many people have such thin connections.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because they're trying to search for more numbers. So so you want to create abundance? Go the exact opposite way deep, develop deep connections of people who you truly care about and they care about you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and and I love that. This is something that is is one of my 2025 things. When I was on the beach in Miami and I was talking with the guy who does the umbrellas and the towels and stuff and I was like, hey, how's your new year? And we were talking about what he did and what we got to do and he's just like I'm really just so grateful for the people in my life. And then what he said he was like you only need to have four or five people that you're really, really deep with you know. And he's like everything else is just fake, it's. It's just it's good to have a network of people that you know and that you can support. But he's like I'm so grateful for this really close circle of the people who I really love and I know who love me, no matter what you know and, and I think Can.
Speaker 2:I just say this yeah. That circle can be as big as you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't have to be four or five people, it could be whatever but but you're.
Speaker 1:You're right, jeff, because I think a lot of you know, and who, I don't know, who, the ages of the folks listening right now, but you're being programmed to think that your, your numbers of followers or likes or whatever, is what matters, and it's like the, the, the thickness of the relationships that you have with each other is actually what matters. You know, and a lot of young people are, um, they're just misguided, you know, and they're over there trying to like, grow, grow, grow, grow with like it's wide and shallow, versus you know narrow and deep. Of course it would look like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because the whole structure of the system they're living in and trying to be measured by it looks like that. It would, of course, look like that Everything, that everything that was emergent out of that system would. Of course it would be. It would be hard to break yourself truly out of that system. Of course it would be. It would be hard to break yourself truly out of that system if everything was inside that system that you were measured but by and that would look normal. So that's what when I say empathy for what people do and and how they, how they make their lives worth through that, through that, trying to keep up with the Joneses, trying to matter, trying to just think about it as Twitter interaction. If somebody says something nice about you, you just you're glowing. And if somebody says something terrible about you, it's. But why do you care on each of those Exactly? And what is what is cause? They're not. They're, they're most likely not saying something about you. They're saying something about themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reflection of themselves within you. I want to be respectful of your time. Do you have time to go for a little longer? You want to cut?
Speaker 1:I'm good, okay good, and I think so and thank you. I think you know a lot of people get this like candle in the wind and the wind blows and they go in these directions. And you know, if we're not solid in who we are and we're just like, oh cool, neutral, somebody said something nice, somebody said something negative, somebody said something, somebody didn't say something, it's not our job to even be involved in that conversation. Like our job, I think, as individuals who are, you know, moving forward on this path, is to be solid and just continuing to do the next right thing. And I know a lot of people like again, coming back to the younger generation, I mean you and I, I think, are pretty similar in our you know timeline of when we came here on earth, but we didn't have 24, seven bullying of, you know, people saying something about oh, I can't believe she wore that skirt, or you know the stuff, oh, he did that for his business move.
Speaker 1:Like, these young people are constantly barraged with this information. You know, you think like they would come home. You know, when you and I were younger, we would come home from school, we would hang out with our people and go do our life. You know. But our younger generations have 24 seven bullying. They have 24 seven judgment. They have 24 seven um keeping up with the Joneses, you know. And so I wonder, like, how do we, without being the old geezers, cause they don't want to listen to us, you know when how do we help the younger generations understand that they don't have to keep up with the joneses and they need to only be?
Speaker 2:same thing, same thing I said before. So I I have three kids now 2018, 16, so they've been growing up in a very different world and that construct is the other construct where they would also be tempted by the same things, where everybody is, because that's the structure of the world. So how do I make sure that they more love, more real conversations more more deep conversations so that they understand what they actually have, and it's not this and that and and see, can see the value now, uh, value of charting their own path.
Speaker 2:What it looks, uh, what it looks like, because that is the construct Most of the people, uh, that's construct. That's a construct that most of the people that think they're living in Bitcoin are still living in. Yeah, they're so listening to the news and they're reinforcing it, even if you said on Twitter, they're constantly. They're measuring in a US currency, uh, bitcoin price. Yeah, reinforcing all of the things they hate, um, out of that, that structure and it's getting worse for it and perhaps they're making more money and it feels like. It feels like they're winning and everything else, and then their ego gets. I'm beating those people. So, but a lot of people, even inside Bitcoin, are so early on their journey. Of course, they're early on their journey because Bitcoin's so early. They're still reinforcing the other system.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think you know, I was talking to a lot of people on New Year's Eve and my question and I can ask you this as well, and I wrote a whole giant blog post about my lessons and blessings for 2024. What are the biggest things we learned? What are the biggest blessings, possibly, from those lessons or beyond? A couple of people's answers were the blessings? Were the number go up, you know, in Bitcoin, because they got to feel a sense of exhaling in their life, you know, and like financially, we know, um, if you're living, you know, I grew up in a, you know my mom and dad were divorced and so we had a lot of scarcity around our uh, upbringing, and so there was always this tension of money and there was this tension of not enough, always this tension of money, and there was this tension of not enough.
Speaker 1:And we had a penny pension. It was very there was a lot of stress, you know, and so that obviously cascades into the family unit. It cascades into the mental and spiritual and emotional health of the children and the children's children, and so when people get to have that kind of exhale with like people get to have that kind of exhale with like you, just like you said earlier, you know, when you couldn't pay rent, you know, for that period of time that creates like a bubble of of contagious stress around you know, you and those that you love. And so when, when our minds are in that like yay, the number's going up, the number number's going up, then we can exhale a little bit. But it's still, you're right. Like people are comparing it in whatever us dollars, canadian dollars, whatever it's like, a bitcoin is bitcoin. We all know that, but we're still, we still have to pay our bills in this fiat system. You know, and so.
Speaker 2:So this is this is going to be important, because it's going to play out a lot of things that will happen, not might happen, will happen in 5 000 years.
Speaker 2:We've never lived in a non-extractive system, never. That mean, that means as a byproduct, if you just go. So we've always lived, lived in. If you were, if you were inside the extractive system let's say, sun Never Sets on the British Empire it looked like you were winning because you were winning more than the people it was extracting from. So slaves in other lands steal their gold, steal their raw materials. It looked like you were winning In the US. Today it looks like you're winning through a financial system. If you're at the top of that financial system, it looks like you're really winning. If you're at the bottom, you're losing. But even if you're at the bottom of the financial system in the US, you're winning against the people that it's extracting more from.
Speaker 2:So we live in that extractive system, we always have. So what's a natural thing that you could say from that? It means you know, and gold allowed us to stop that for times. In fact, the rise of the US was the US. Individual rights and freedoms and a free market was more productive than the rest of the world, and so it moved people. They left. They left countries in Europe and moved to the US to be able to take advantage of that, and that was the rise of the US. And then that system got co-opted again again and this is now so. So we must be. If we've always lived in a system of extraction, then we must, through incentives, be easily coerced into that system for $5,000, because we always get trapped by it. We could have always said, nope, we're not going to be fooled this time.
Speaker 2:And so when I think about, what it and what bitcoin is and what what it looks like. So now you have this new, different protocol, bounded by energy that's decentralized and secure, and it is imposing a cooperative system. Competitive, but cooperative, so competitive is is we compete with each other to provide more value to other people, and the output of that competition is relative to that system. All prices are falling forever. What would our knowledge inside the system we've always lived in? 5,000 years of history, all the history books, everything else and all of the misinterpretations of what drove history out of that broken system. Think about this new system. You wouldn't have the mental framework to understand it. No one would, right, it would be very difficult even to hold on to what I'm saying right now, because this is imposing a new discipline on the world.
Speaker 2:But if you were measuring it in the US dollar, then you're actually still, because that system, that inflationary system, has to still be inflationary. The US dollar is based on an inflationary system that, if the debt was reset, couldn't, so it has to still be extractive. So if you're inside that system, you're probably really easily fooled into trusting your bitcoin to somebody else, right, because you're measuring it in the derivative instrument rather than bitcoin itself. You're probably also not running a node. You're measuring it in the derivative instrument rather than Bitcoin itself. You're probably also not running a node.
Speaker 2:You're probably also not doing because you don't care, because for you, price just went up, all other prices fell and you're doing really well, and so that would be a naturally because that system would be centralizing, and the only system that we've ever seen in the planet that wouldn't allow that system to centralize is bitcoin. As long as people ran nodes, took self-custody, understood what was contributed to this network. So, down the road, we are going to have not, we might have, we are going to have. Potentially, there is going to be a break, and that break because there are two contradictory systems, and if you're on the wrong side of that break, if you're trusting somebody else with your Bitcoin and you're measuring in the US dollar or any dollar, you will probably get wiped out or any dollar, you will probably get wiped out.
Speaker 1:So obviously, we're entering into this new year and we're seeing your Canadian misfit resign, thank goodness, and we're going to have a new person here in our government. A lot of people are concerned about the consolidation of Bitcoin being held, whether it's through the government, through MicroStrategy, through BlackRock, through these big entities, right. And so there's conversations that I keep having with people and they're like well, why bother? We can't use it as a medium of exchange? There's capital gains da, da, da, and so they just kind of throw their hands up.
Speaker 1:You know and I think to me too, as a business person, you know, like I'm, how do I run my BTC pay server, how do I navigate, you know, making sure because I'm, I'm okay. I don't love paying taxes. I would prefer not to, or at least could I just check boxes on what taxes I want the money to go to. But, like I want to do things correctly and I think there's a lot of people out there who do but because it is there's so many friction points, they're just like, ah, forget it, I'm just going to stay with the old fiat system until it's easy. And I'm like revolutions aren't easy, they're not supposed to be easy. They're supposed to have work and they're supposed to have some friction. There's supposed to be some discomfort in them.
Speaker 1:And so what do you say to people who are kind of on the fence and they see Bitcoin as obviously a store of value for long-term, but they're like we're never spending our Bitcoin. And I'm like spend your Bitcoin If I know I need to go buy a hundred dollars worth of you know, wine, or meat or pizza today and I want to pay in Bitcoin. I'm going to buy Bitcoin in the morning, I'm going to spend it that afternoon, so I'm not hitting the vol. And but people are like, oh, you can do that, I'm like you can do anything you know, but like they need a little bit of handholding and nudging. Like how do you talk to people who are in that resistance mode?
Speaker 2:Just like this when you first bought Bitcoin, you probably didn't see Bitcoin as it is today, as you see it today.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So your own view of Bitcoin has changed over time as you've seen how deep this connection is. So why would you expect somebody else to know your knowledge today when they're just starting their journey? And so we have 8 billion new minds, or 7.95 billion new minds, coming into this understanding, and they're all at different levels of understanding and they're going to take their time in understanding it. But again, and that's why I say, if it stays decentralized and secure and I could go deeply into why it will but but if it says it doesn't care about what they think about it, yeah, and what that means is if you name, name the people who've tried to cheat Bitcoin, and one Nobody as far as I can tell.
Speaker 2:Cheat Bitcoin and you get destroyed, and so lots of people are unfortunately going to be trying to. Because that's why I say if we've never lived in 5,000 years in a system of competitive cooperation, lived in 5,000 years in a system of competitive cooperation and we've always been able to extract, then you could expect that the smartest minds, the best, the most brightest, would try everything they could do to control this network. You'd have to expect that, so you'd have to expect everything that would come from that, and you'd have to expect most that would come from that. And you don't have to expect most people just like 5 000 years.
Speaker 2:it would be true, we would be measuring from that, we would think it would be co-opted and so, and so we wouldn't take our own personal choices to make sure that it it wouldn't um and and so in this, in this, in bitcoin, because it is a personal choice and the people that are running nodes and the people that are contributing to it and the people that are spending in it and the people that are doing what you're doing are all um are all actively keeping it decentralized and secure yeah and so when I say we are bitcoin, we literally are bitcoin, yeah, and so when I say we are a.
Speaker 2:Bitcoin. We literally are a Bitcoin. Yeah, and in 1992, the, the cypherpunk mailing list was 70 people and they all knew the same things we're talking about right now. In 1992, they knew what would happen. I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't have this and that knowledge that um uh buck bucky fuller might have known, but he couldn't. There was no way to cascade it into an energy-based system that was decentralized and secure. And so there were these bright lights throughout time that knew, but there was no way to create it.
Speaker 2:Now there's a way to create it, but there's not 70 people on a mailing list. There's hundreds of thousands of people distributed around the world that are all adding more and more voices and a depth of understanding. That is the decentralization and security that keeps us. Now, for the people that want to cheat it, they have to try to negotiate with those hundreds of thousands of people that they don't know all around the world and more and more people joining it all the time. Good luck Like good luck. So, for the people that are worried about the people who think they have control today, I wouldn't worry about that. I would just contribute your time to the decentralization and security and teach other people why it's important for them to the decentralization and security and teach other people why it's important for them.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think, jeff, I was having a conversation with somebody a few days ago about, of course, he's like you need to check out Polkadot and this and that and it's innovative, and dah, dah, dah. And he's like it's mostly decentralized. And I just looked at him and I was like my friend, there's no such thing as mostly decentralized. There's pregnant or not pregnant, there's decentralized, there's not decentralized. And so you have to understand what the value prop is of decentralization versus this other convoluted thing that you're talking about.
Speaker 1:And it's, it's so. It's such a game I feel like I'm turning into, like this you know lava lamp, you know that turns into a forum and I can go communicate with somebody over here, and then it's like, okay, your things that you're interested in is over here. So I'm going to reform and look at different perspectives to try to, you know, have a conversation with you from this lens, and it's it's like there's no one way to talk to people about what's important about Bitcoin, you know, because some people think it's a number go up, some people think it is the security, some people think it's separating money from state, and so it's been a fun intellectual exercise that has stretched me more than anything on earth that I could ever have imagined. I thought, oh yeah it has to be.
Speaker 2:But if it's us and if we create the frameworks that we live in, then it has to be connected to everything. Yeah Right, it has to be. It has to be connected to everything. It's not one fractal that people are looking at Now. When you first look at it you think, oh okay, this, this resets the financial system, or this is a way of truth, or this is an honest ledger, or this is a way of truth, or this is an honest ledger, or this is like your thing will be the thing that kind of first inspires in. But as you go deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole, you realize it has to be connected to everything. Yeah it, it literally is a new, it's a it. It touches everything because it's it's literally us and the new framework that we've never lived in before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think about what connects us as humans, that nobody's immune to Time. We have air. We all walk on earth. We have a couple things that, no matter who you are and what your background is or gender or any of it, it's like these things are ubiquitous, right, and I think, Bitcoin. We all have to have some form of energy exchange with our value and because everything has been this fake money and rocks and gold and paper and things, it's like this is such a new way to look at how we're transacting our life, our time, you know, and our value in with each other. So it's something that I I'm still like every day I wake up and I'm like I'm so grateful to get to participate. I feel like the newbie pleb all the time.
Speaker 2:What a time to be alive. It's just incredible to be able to live at this moment, to be able to see what's possible and actually not just see what. Being an active participant.
Speaker 1:Being an active participant, being an active participant, being an active participant and I think, Jeff, that's something that's so cool and you've been just so gracious and positive, encouraging me and, obviously, so many other people out there it's like we all have a thumbprint on the sculpture and we all have something to contribute. So, whether you're a cryptographer, whether you're a business person, whether you're an artist, whether you're a you know a podcaster, a DJ, whoever you are like, the whole sculpture needs your thumbprint. You know, and you don't have to ask permission to go put it in the sculpture.
Speaker 2:It's an open network.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's like look at like what other things have that you know? You look at music, you look at business. It's kind of like you're in these weird boxes. There's hierarchy in those boxes.
Speaker 2:Nothing can have that because they're all part of a system that is extractive. So that's the point. Nothing else can have it. They have to look. The emergent structure of what they look like is obvious when it is an emergent structure based on that theft.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They can't allow the free market to work. So everything inside that other system. So we keep going back to all those people, right? They're still stuck in measuring from that system. Of course it would look like that to them go.
Speaker 1:I was like what if we had like a, a, a BEO, like a Bitcoin entrepreneur organization? Like my ex and I were in EO and it used to be YEO, you know, and I'm like, do we have any kind of? I mean, it's obviously the sky's the limit. You can go, do what you want, but it is nice to have the camaraderie of other entrepreneurs and the camaraderie of other people who are, you know, taking action to move forward, and then you can have mentorship, you can have peer-to-peer support and accountability. What would you say to young Bitcoiners who want to start Bitcoin businesses?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'd just say that your idea, the thing you just said, is an opportunity. I can't tell you whether you would execute on that opportunity grade if you wanted to do it or who would, but yes, there's opportunities everywhere here.
Speaker 2:And then creating value for other people is what success looks like in this. So the more value you create, the more success you is, and so, but there's like I'm blown away by all the different ideas that I see and they and what makes me more positive on the future, um is I'm watching these things accelerate. I'm watching these things and I'm watching these just incredibly brilliant entrepreneurs and people building in the space. I went to Madeira at the end of October and in March when we did the conference, I think there were 36 businesses accepting Bitcoin, and by the end of October there was 136. So you could spend Bitcoin everywhere. But then you watch what Gigi and Pablo have done with sovereign engineering. You should see what's coming out of there, yay. And so this is happening all around the world. It's so amazing what it means and what's coming that people can't see what's coming and some of the businesses will fail, just like in com internet days.
Speaker 2:You have a free market of global competition creating value for other people on this, and all you have to do is move some time and as you move some time, you're going to see more and more opportunities and you're going to see other people that are doing really cool things that you want to be a part of and you might want to just join that company or join what they're doing. But the first step is starting to see some of the opportunities. And so I get called all the time and I get emails all the time and I just can't, I don't. Here may be another opportunity, right, how do you match, make that? Yeah, right, all the time, and I just can't, I don't.
Speaker 2:Here may be another opportunity, right, how do you match? Make that? Yeah, right, because I can't, I just don't have the bandwidth to be able to. Okay, this person wants this, this person wants this, this person. But there's lots of different opportunities within this, because you see both sides of that. You see crazy great entrepreneurs building really, really incredible things that are scaling, and you see a whole bunch of people that want to get into Bitcoin space. What I would say with most of the people that you want to get into Bitcoin space is they say that while contributing 99% of their time to the existing yeah.
Speaker 2:So they just haven't made the move. So how do you start to make the move and carve back a little bit of time here? Spend 5%, spend your extra time putting on a meetup group, do something, just move some time and by contributing into there you're going to see more people spending their time there contributing into there.
Speaker 1:you're going to see more people spending their time there. Yeah, I think that's such a good point and because a lot of people if we're new to the space, if we're new to any space for that matter we look at people who are in the solid spot in the space and we're just like, oh, what kind of value can I actually add? And it's like, well, what are you good at? What are you passionate about? What are things that you know light you up as an individual?
Speaker 1:I remember when I used to live on a sailboat. I used to teach college kids sailing and, you know, traveled all over the Keys and the Great Lakes, and one of my favorite questions was to ask people like you know, what's your dream and what do you love? Enough that you would do it for free, you know, and it's like that's kind of, and these young people, these college kids, would just look at me like, well, my dad was a doctor and, you know, my grandpa was a doctor and all these things, and they wouldn't have a clue of what lit them up, you know. And so to me, I think, helping new people who are excited about Bitcoin, it's like you don't have to be a startup entrepreneur, you could go, like you just said, go, engage with people who are already doing something, add a little value, whether it's a meetup, whether it's okay.
Speaker 1:Hey, jeff, I want to promote your book or I want to anything that you can do, to become integrated into the system with your skills and talents, kind of like in your ikigai right and, I think, for people listening, don't be afraid, I don't know about you, Jeff, but I can speak for myself and I think you say the same. But everybody I've encountered in the Bitcoin space has got big, super giant arms that are like come on in, we, we want to. You know, welcome you and let's do some stuff together. Not just talk, but like let's go make things happen.
Speaker 2:Just under one condition play it forward.
Speaker 1:Yes and yes, yes, yes, and pay it forward. Oh my God, isn't that the best Like? And you seriously, jeff, you, um, you emulate that and you're somebody I I have a few people on one hand, and you're one of them that inspires me to be that, and you're somebody I have a few people on one hand, and you're one of them that inspires me to be that, and you're somebody who I think I told you this before on one of our calls like what would Jeff Booth say, like don't post something, like does it pass? The what would Jeff Booth say thing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I will wrap it up here, because it's been a good hour and a half and I thank you guys all for tuning in with Jeff, and you know the, the three leaps from fear to faith, to future, right, and I think a lot of people can be stuck right now in a state of fear, in a state of FUD and uncertainty and doubt of what's going on in the future of their lives. But we've got this tool and we've got this network, and the network isn't just technology, it's the technology of our hearts that are interconnected, and I think that's what Bitcoin does is it brings us together from a heart to heart level and it's changed my life. You know, and I'm really grateful for people like you, jeff, and I hope you know like I've had so many conversations with people about just random things and they're like Jeff Booth said this and Jeff did this.
Speaker 2:I'm right back at you Like it's just, I'm just one node in this network and it's important that it's. This network is bigger than all of us it is all of us. It is all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is all of us, it is all of us, yeah.
Speaker 2:It is all of us, and so that's the. I appreciate it, I really appreciate it. But I get so much out of this, the love that I get from all of the people in this community it's crazy.
Speaker 1:It is and it's this cool reciprocal spiral. And I know that you don't give it just to get it. You give it because you have it and you're overflowing and I know, for those of us who do participate in that sharing economy it's just a natural reciprocity that happens. But we're not doing it because we want something back. It's just. It's just the way that the math works.
Speaker 2:Kind of a secret. Kind of a kind of a secret that if you understand that secret, it's uh, life becomes pretty easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like I mean, I don't know about you, Jeff, but like when I get up and I get to do an interview like this with you, or if I'm doing a course or a workshop, or if I'm, anytime I'm, I'm engaged with my purpose, it's like it's not an act of you know, it's not effortful, it's effortless.
Speaker 2:You're just spending time with people you want to spend time with.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what I mean. It's pretty, pretty easy. It's pretty easy secret. That's what I mean. It's a pretty easy secret.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's magic. Okay, so what are your 2025? Do you have a dream, a hope, a mission, a vision for 2025? For yourself, your family, for Bitcoin? For any of the above?
Speaker 2:I hope to finish the book I'm working on, but it's a hard book, so if I put something on there, that's what I'm hoping. And then, just, I want more people to understand the speed of the transition. The speed of the transition is all driven by us, so it's all a matter of when we get it, not when other people get it, not when they. So that's, and so you could. You literally can move to your energy and start living a different, your best life. Now. You don't have to wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the thing I think a lot of people think there, there has to be some, uh, demarcation line. When you're supposed to, you know, oh, I can start changing now, or living my best life. It's like it's right now, this breath. If you inhale, you can start changing your life in this moment. And so here's your permission slip everybody, here's your golden ticket for 2025. And, uh, here's your golden ticket for 2025. And it's from Jeff and I, and from the universe and from yourself, most importantly. So I think that's super cool. Well, when you have your book done and I know it will be done, there's no hope. It's a done deal. There's a faith thing that happens there. It will happen. I'd love to have you back on and celebrate what you're up to, but everybody, you guys, if you haven't read the Price of Tomorrow, I have it up there next.
Speaker 2:To.
Speaker 1:Julian, you're between Julian and Dr Seuss, jeff, I mean that's kind of good.
Speaker 1:Oh, the places you'll go One of our fabulous freedom warriors, julian Assange, and so that's a pretty good station to be at. But yeah, go to jeffboothca and then you can also follow Jeff on Noster. If you guys go to primalnet, forward, slash jeffbooth and definitely you guys. For those of you listening, if you don't know what Noster is, I mean Jeff, you want to plug Noster really quick and just tell people who may not know what Noster is, plug Nostr really quick and just tell people who may not know what Nostr is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do a protocol on top of Bitcoin. That is a communication Right now, like Twitter on top of Bitcoin, where you can, but in time it'll move into a whole bunch of other things Really early still, but nobody can silence you, can't shut you off. You're not a feature of the algorithm trying to monetize you. You can have true, honest, open communications and built networks there that can never be taken from you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's such an important thing. I keep, we keep seeing, you know, oh, the algorithms like don't say negative things or don't go against your government, or don't speak the truth or any of it. I've had a couple of my episodes taken down from YouTube because I've asked questions. You know that the powers that be weren't happy about, and we need to have that. If we don't have the layer of the ability to communicate with each other, how can we have a free and open society that is inclusive for everybody? And so Nostra is such an extraordinary tool, and so I would encourage everybody to check it out, and Primal is one of the clients that you can use.
Speaker 2:There's a bunch of others, depending on what you're up to, but definitely we're so early, like where we are in Nostra in, and if you compared it to bitcoin, we're probably in 2013. Right, so it's uh, so it'll happen. It'll happen faster because the technology cycles are happening faster, uh, faster than if you just but, um, but we're so early in that. So people people, by being early, believe oh, there's not enough people there. But if you invert that, if you invert that equation similar if you inverted the equation on bitcoin the benefit is being early and showing people the way, and and and working through, and that's the benefit and also the people that are creating value on top of it is they're creating, creating ways to to build more value and all of those things that people are worried about being. It doesn't do what my other social media platform does today.
Speaker 2:That's actually the point yeah that's the point, that's that's the value creation, because you're creating value in in different spot and you'll be likely well rewarded for providing that value.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think a lot of people were again coming back to the younger generation and obviously still even our generation of like the numbers, this we're supposed to have, all these followers, likes, engagements and whatnot. It's like you're in a football stadium up in the bleachers when you're in Twitter or when you're in Facebook or when you're in these centralized things, but like when you're in Nostra right now, you're in like a beautiful retreat in the jungle with the coolest people talking about the most important topics you know, and you're not being told to be quiet or you're not being pushed to the back, like you're part of this conversation with the people that you choose to be in conversation with, not that the algorithm, you know, chooses for you. So, so you know it is. It's not about quantity, it's about quality, you know, and I and I think Nostra really represents that a lot and and it is fun to see you know all the people developing on top of it and how we're doing booster grounds and all these fun you know experiences where young artists can go do a show and have people from all over the world like zap them and they get paid more than they would have, you know, on Spotify for five years. So it's just. It's such a cool.
Speaker 1:I just love it. I love all the people who are contributing to this movement, so, um, yeah. So all right, jeff. So I'm wishing you the best year ever. I love all the people who are contributing to this movement, so, yeah, so all right, jeff. So I'm wishing you the best year ever. I hope I see you many times this year. I'm not sure what my travel schedule looks like, but hopefully we'll be coinciding somewhere along the way. Andre is going to be on the show at the end of the month, tomer and Bevan We've got a nifty nay also, so it's going to be having like a really good good.
Speaker 2:January lineup Great lineup.
Speaker 1:I know I'm just like thank you so much everybody for sharing, and thank you so much for kicking off this year, and I wish you the best year yet, jeff, and everybody listening. I wish you guys the best year too, and buckle up. It's going to be a fun ride For sure. All right, everybody Peace, love and warm aloha, and we'll catch y'all at the next show. Thanks again, Jeff.